WEBVTT X-TIMESTAMP-MAP=LOCAL:00:00:00.000,MPEGTS:0 00:04.070 --> 00:10.880 Ok, so good afternoon and welcome to our panel discussion on mobility as a service. 00:10.890 --> 00:17.680 I am Catherine Roman and in the next 25 minutes, we will be discussing how to create a 00:17.690 --> 00:23.950 blueprint for a sustainable and also profitable mo mobility as a service 00:23.959 --> 00:28.040 ecosystem. Please join me in welcoming the Panelist, 00:28.049 --> 00:33.700 Harold Prof is our global automotive leader at Deloitte Ricardo Ferrao is leading the 00:33.709 --> 00:40.029 consulting services for the transportation industry at Deloitte Portugal Guro Hman, 00:40.349 --> 00:46.040 research Associate for the University of Tuks Essen and English Mal director, 00:46.049 --> 00:51.580 auto Automotive Mobility at Deloitte Germany. Thank you so much for being here, 00:53.270 --> 00:55.599 Harold. Let's start with you. 00:56.459 --> 01:00.389 The concept of mobility as a service is not new. 01:01.150 --> 01:05.160 Um but we are not there where we want to be, right? 01:05.190 --> 01:11.260 Um However, very very few players um have managed to establish a a 01:11.599 --> 01:18.129 profitable mobility as a service ecosystem. Why do you think that's the the the case? 01:18.819 --> 01:23.790 Well, I think that's exactly the point. Um I think that's also what you're hearing here 01:23.800 --> 01:30.599 also on yesterday and today also on many panels, I think the mis is a concept that is 01:30.610 --> 01:37.010 talked to since 78 years, but we see only a lot of pilots but not a 01:37.019 --> 01:40.980 real breakthrough blueprint, how it should work. 01:41.180 --> 01:44.739 And the point is, as we all know here Europe, especially in Europe, 01:44.750 --> 01:49.664 the Green deal is also requesting cities to become more co two neutral. 01:49.674 --> 01:52.304 Therefore, transportation is also a very crucial element. 01:52.333 --> 01:54.744 I think the point is we have to accelerate that, you know, 01:54.753 --> 01:58.384 we have to find a solution. Now, the point is we are here, 01:58.393 --> 02:05.103 smart city expo, cities on themselves are normally not so rich that they can do 02:05.113 --> 02:08.783 everything and finance everything on their own. So we have to find public, 02:08.794 --> 02:13.904 private combinations on that to make it happen to get all the barriers out of the road. 02:14.154 --> 02:18.848 And the point is now to make it a public private exercise, 02:18.858 --> 02:22.848 we do have to have a kind of a profitability or economic thing in there. 02:22.878 --> 02:27.147 And we were looking and that was also this that we want to do to where are, 02:27.158 --> 02:29.218 how can you do this? And I think the first step, 02:29.227 --> 02:34.858 what we did is to have a look, where are we now on the mis and the problem is here that um 02:35.197 --> 02:40.527 unfortunately, um you do not get so much good figures for mis, 02:40.537 --> 02:43.761 you know, you have individual cases. There is something in the Netherlands, 02:43.772 --> 02:46.701 something in Finland, something in the US, something in Asia. 02:46.822 --> 02:52.261 But it is always a bit a case study here, a research study there. 02:52.322 --> 02:58.621 But I think the data is difficult because the companies involved or the entities involved are 02:58.632 --> 03:03.641 not forced to publish data. So it's not like a car company where you have 03:03.651 --> 03:06.361 all the data, you need to make many assessments. So therefore, 03:06.371 --> 03:12.195 we started with an A I BASED exercise to get a kind of a baseline. 03:12.205 --> 03:16.925 Where are we? So what are best practices and how can we do 03:16.936 --> 03:18.276 this? OK. 03:18.585 --> 03:25.365 So there is a lack on comparable data. If we want to understand the current mobility 03:25.376 --> 03:31.576 as a service landscape, we need the data. So g can you share with us which kind of data 03:31.585 --> 03:34.695 did you use? And what was the role of artificial 03:34.705 --> 03:36.106 intelligence in the process? 03:36.839 --> 03:38.979 Yeah, thank you. I would love to do that. 03:38.990 --> 03:42.250 Um In our study, we had the problem of having the lack of data. 03:42.259 --> 03:46.889 So what we kind to address was how is the market actually really looking? 03:46.899 --> 03:53.550 So we use the database fa to get mainly news articles but also scientific 03:53.559 --> 03:59.779 data to see if we can uh yeah, paint a kind of broader picture of mobility as a service today. 04:00.139 --> 04:06.800 So what we did is like uh getting into this database with over 670 million articles to 04:06.809 --> 04:13.759 analyze, screening them and deriving our important articles by applying A I method 04:13.770 --> 04:19.649 as topic modeling to create different clusters and identify clusters that are related to 04:19.660 --> 04:21.619 mobility and mobility as a service. 04:21.899 --> 04:28.640 And afterwards, we uh to get to our framework we applied several different A I methods 04:28.649 --> 04:34.989 like classifiers, uh large language models to address really just the architects that are 04:35.000 --> 04:38.049 really talking about mobility as a service, which is a very, 04:38.059 --> 04:42.489 very difficult way because in our framework, we got very, 04:42.500 --> 04:49.489 very different constructs which different art variables and they uh kind of are 04:49.500 --> 04:52.130 very dependent on each other. So it was quite, 04:52.140 --> 04:54.690 really hard to get to that data. 04:56.320 --> 05:01.290 Thank you. The mobility as a service ecosystem is pretty 05:01.299 --> 05:06.000 complex. Um Harold in the study you published um two 05:06.010 --> 05:12.750 days, two days ago, you introduced a blueprint. Um and you emphasize on a modular 05:12.760 --> 05:15.630 concept. Can you give us a couple of information? 05:16.549 --> 05:20.850 Yes, of course. I think, I think as you said, 05:20.859 --> 05:27.230 one element, why it is not going ahead as quickly as we all would like it to be is the 05:27.239 --> 05:28.649 complexity of the topic. 05:28.980 --> 05:32.170 You know, everything combines to everything and with this, 05:32.179 --> 05:34.950 everything is very slowly, everything depends on everything. 05:34.959 --> 05:41.130 So our approach was a little bit combining and that's why the gentleman sitting here combining 05:41.140 --> 05:46.130 what we are doing with clients, what we are doing in the individual elements out of this 05:46.140 --> 05:52.950 area and saying how to structure in four models. And we basically cut MS system in four 05:52.959 --> 05:57.989 modules. One is a customer facing model, one is solution 05:58.000 --> 06:01.700 model to the platform model. One is a public private model for the 06:01.709 --> 06:05.859 interaction with the regulators which is in transportation always necessary and one is a 06:05.869 --> 06:08.730 kind of an asset model, where are the assets on that? 06:08.959 --> 06:14.220 And I think that was the point when we stay in complexity, we are killed in complexity. 06:14.359 --> 06:17.529 So we have to really, if we want to get something going, 06:17.540 --> 06:23.010 we have to be very clear and focused. And I think that's what the approach and yeah. 06:23.660 --> 06:27.769 OK. So um you hear it, four modules seems to be the 06:27.779 --> 06:31.299 solution of our problem. So to understand, well, 06:31.309 --> 06:36.420 we hope it the solution. Let let us understand the modules a little bit 06:36.429 --> 06:41.000 better. Um ingo the demand module, the demand is there 06:41.010 --> 06:47.489 now the demand for new mobility solutions is there and understanding and addressing 06:47.500 --> 06:52.130 demand is key for a successful mobility as a as a service platform. 06:52.220 --> 06:55.570 So um can you briefly explain the demand module, please? 06:55.899 --> 06:58.899 Yeah. So first of all, as you said, demand is there 06:58.910 --> 07:04.239 um as as we already showed in um several other studies, for example, 07:04.250 --> 07:08.850 the future of automotive mobility study we um published earlier this year, 07:08.859 --> 07:15.359 there are huge shifts um really shaping the society and how we will be using mobility in 07:15.369 --> 07:19.369 the future. For example, the shift from ownership to usage, 07:19.380 --> 07:24.299 people just don't want to own cars anymore. They tend to use cars tend to use different 07:24.309 --> 07:30.109 modes of mobility and that really helps to push the mobility as a service model as well. 07:30.579 --> 07:37.529 However, what we see is that you need to be fast, although it's not moving 07:37.540 --> 07:41.869 fast at the beginning and you need to come to a certain size. 07:41.880 --> 07:44.890 So time to market and size is really what matters. 07:45.690 --> 07:52.660 Size is extremely important because you need to get traffic on 07:52.670 --> 07:55.720 the platforms. If you are introducing a mobility as a service 07:55.730 --> 07:59.440 platform, you need to get traffic on that right from the beginning. 07:59.450 --> 08:03.700 And that's the biggest challenge to be profitable without traffic, 08:03.709 --> 08:06.679 you will never be profitable. We've seen that in the past on different 08:06.690 --> 08:10.220 platforms, they just stay empty, people are not using it. 08:10.959 --> 08:15.350 So we thought about how to get traffic on the platform right from the beginning. 08:15.359 --> 08:21.809 And one of the solutions we thought of was to really partner up with large Corporates in the 08:21.820 --> 08:27.350 cities. So have them get the employees, their employees 08:27.359 --> 08:30.779 best case like thousands of employees directly on the platform. 08:30.790 --> 08:35.159 Right from the beginning in the past, we've seen a lot of corporate cars, 08:36.020 --> 08:39.809 corporate leasing as a solution. People are moving away from that. 08:39.820 --> 08:42.169 People, employees don't want that anymore. 08:42.380 --> 08:49.369 So you could move to mobility budget solutions, mobility budget projects products and 08:49.380 --> 08:53.609 that would bring a lot of customers. A lot of employees from that corporate 08:53.619 --> 08:56.729 partnerships directly from the beginning on the platform. 08:57.239 --> 08:59.130 That's going to be key from our perspective. 08:59.599 --> 09:04.260 Thank you. Yo Harold also mentioned the platform um 09:04.270 --> 09:06.900 interaction with the solution owner. 09:07.150 --> 09:11.580 So what is like the must have for a successful platform? 09:12.500 --> 09:15.400 So uh good afternoon to everyone, it's a pleasure to be here. 09:15.409 --> 09:20.380 Uh Just before I reply to your question. So we already talk about public companies, 09:20.390 --> 09:26.169 private companies, big cities, small companies. So we are talking about a complex environment 09:26.179 --> 09:31.380 or a complex ecosystem. So the platform itself should be uh something 09:31.390 --> 09:35.700 that's one should provide seamless integration between the different stakeholders. 09:36.039 --> 09:39.919 Second, it's important to have data and have governance of the data. 09:39.929 --> 09:43.669 It's important also to be able to have the capacity to share data with the ones that are 09:43.679 --> 09:46.859 interested to have that data because if I don't have data, 09:47.049 --> 09:50.119 I will not have confidence to be part of this ecosystem. 09:50.130 --> 09:55.140 So based on that, uh the way we design and we are implementing platforms. 09:55.150 --> 09:59.179 So we, we are, we split it in, in f in four main components. 09:59.369 --> 10:02.580 One, we already talked about that. It's, it's a app app. 10:02.590 --> 10:08.210 We need to have a good app, but we also need to have a good uh web portal or corporate portal. 10:08.500 --> 10:11.650 Uh And this is something that we already have in our ecosystem. 10:11.659 --> 10:16.659 So, and we have more than that, we have an end to end platform as we call it because we have a 10:16.669 --> 10:18.359 app, a corporate portal. 10:18.669 --> 10:24.239 But everything that we have, it's uh organized uh uh having the, 10:24.250 --> 10:28.020 the U user, the cities and the, the person that will consume the data, 10:28.030 --> 10:31.099 consume the, the, the, the means of transportation in the center. 10:31.109 --> 10:34.919 So based on that, all the architecture as at the center, 10:34.929 --> 10:40.700 what we call it activity, a BT. So activity uh based uh T uh architecture. 10:41.219 --> 10:46.530 So below that, what we are proposing to, to do is to implement the backend system because we 10:46.539 --> 10:49.960 also need to deal with revenue management issues. 10:49.969 --> 10:54.799 Uh We need to, to also to be able to, to deal with compliance issues, 10:54.809 --> 10:57.789 uh finance topics. So we need to have a very, 10:57.799 --> 11:01.919 very strong uh backend system that we will be able to incon connect to connect, 11:01.929 --> 11:06.530 to integrate easily uh wi with the the user app, with the corporate portal. 11:06.539 --> 11:10.059 And with all all the scholars that want to be part of the archi architecture. 11:10.700 --> 11:16.460 Uh At the end, I will say it's also very, very important to have a clear connection and sim 11:16.619 --> 11:21.830 sim connection with the the payment gateways because uh what what everyone is expecting this 11:21.840 --> 11:26.679 is to be able to use the, the, the their transportation and paying their, 11:26.690 --> 11:29.450 their, what they are using, what they are consuming by, 11:29.460 --> 11:32.869 by their mobile phones, by their, their watches, whatever. 11:32.880 --> 11:37.770 So it's really important to provide also a very uh powerful and, 11:37.780 --> 11:41.130 and and easy to use. I use a payment uh services to, 11:41.140 --> 11:43.010 to, to the citizens, to the people. 11:43.419 --> 11:44.450 Ricardo, thank you so much. 11:45.099 --> 11:49.890 Let's talk about the asset module, very important module, 11:49.900 --> 11:54.340 I would say very interesting. Some of the mobility as a service providers 11:54.349 --> 12:01.260 work with the current mode of transportation and they may not think about the 12:01.270 --> 12:05.849 need of the of creation of a new Mobil solutions. 12:06.179 --> 12:12.150 So um there are also many open questions about the ownership of these assets and the 12:12.159 --> 12:17.909 interaction um with investors, can you maybe give us a little bit insight there? 12:18.140 --> 12:23.500 Yeah, happy to do so. Um Until now, we have talked a lot about 12:23.510 --> 12:28.450 platforms and how to build a good customer experience and all that, 12:28.710 --> 12:34.919 but at least as important as that is the assets, having the assets that you need to actually 12:34.929 --> 12:37.539 build mobility as a service ecosystem. 12:37.760 --> 12:41.479 And we are talking about cars here, buses, micro mobility, 12:41.489 --> 12:47.030 all that kind of stuff. And it has been kind of neglected in the in the 12:47.039 --> 12:50.989 past years. Maybe that's because there are actually quite a 12:51.000 --> 12:57.619 few challenges if we put ourselves into the perspective of a city managing 12:57.630 --> 13:03.260 assets is just not something they've been doing in the past mobility assets they haven't been 13:03.270 --> 13:07.320 managing. So that's one of the key challenges managing 13:07.330 --> 13:11.700 those assets. And secondly, the refinancing to be really 13:11.710 --> 13:16.820 honest, most of the cities don't have the capital to invest that kind of money that is 13:16.830 --> 13:23.479 needed to really build up an asset pool that's required for mobility as a service solution. 13:24.049 --> 13:30.900 Talking about the asset management first, what you really need to establish is an asset 13:30.909 --> 13:35.700 management that helps you to keep the assets, cars, buses, 13:35.710 --> 13:40.900 etc utilized, keep them where the clients are, keep them on the road, 13:41.030 --> 13:45.679 really make sure that you have less downtime as possible. 13:46.140 --> 13:52.969 What we envision here is really use telematics, use data driven insights to push that to plan 13:52.979 --> 13:57.849 ahead, for example, for maintenance of your assets, keep them really as much as possible on 13:57.859 --> 14:02.530 the streets. Secondly, also manage the entire acid life 14:02.539 --> 14:06.179 cycle from the beginning, from the on boarding through the usage, 14:06.190 --> 14:12.710 but also make the right decision of re marketing an asset or putting it into 14:12.770 --> 14:16.210 recycling, which is going to be a big deal as well in the future. 14:16.969 --> 14:22.099 Secondly, as I mentioned, the whole refinancing, as I said, 14:22.109 --> 14:26.619 most cities won't have the capital to finance refinance the assets themselves. 14:26.630 --> 14:31.640 They need to go either to the capital market or do refinancing via debt, 14:32.330 --> 14:37.489 capital market, asset backed securities. The market kind of is full at this time. 14:37.500 --> 14:41.090 So there is not a lot of demand for additional asset backed securities, 14:41.309 --> 14:44.840 that's not really an option. Same with refinancing via debt. 14:44.849 --> 14:50.169 As you all know, interest rates have gone up, refinancing by a debt is very expensive, 14:50.875 --> 14:52.275 not really economical. 14:52.614 --> 14:58.705 So what we did is we actually what we are doing right now is thinking about an innovative 14:58.724 --> 15:05.424 solution, how to do refinancing via third parties and very innovative 15:05.434 --> 15:10.690 refinancing options more to come. Later on on that me, 15:11.469 --> 15:17.849 um Ricardo successful mobility as a service ecosystem also um depend on the 15:17.859 --> 15:21.229 interaction with the government and with the cities. 15:21.369 --> 15:24.549 So um what's your perspective on these interactions? 15:25.760 --> 15:30.179 So it, it's not easy, it's not a easy topic, I will say so. 15:30.580 --> 15:35.000 Uh So I, I will also had the, the private companies uh in this ecosystem. 15:35.010 --> 15:39.429 So, and so if we think again, if we think about cities, their own interests, 15:39.440 --> 15:43.219 uh there are uh if we think about the, the private sector, 15:43.590 --> 15:45.900 they need, they need to have a business case in order to, 15:45.909 --> 15:48.489 to invest. So and, and it's not, it's not easy to put 15:48.500 --> 15:51.760 together the two interests of the public and the private. 15:52.130 --> 15:58.500 Uh mainly due to 23 reasons I will say. So, one of them is lack of regulation. 15:58.510 --> 16:02.390 So it's each one of them that are, they are using their, 16:02.400 --> 16:08.239 their own solutions, their standards there. So there is no uh bridge between the two, 16:08.250 --> 16:10.960 the public and the private sector at this moment. 16:11.150 --> 16:13.880 So there is, there is really a lack of regulation. 16:14.409 --> 16:20.010 Uh Second, I already talk about data. So uh I need to in order to be part again of a 16:20.020 --> 16:22.669 specific ecosystems. Uh I need to trust on that. 16:22.679 --> 16:26.469 Uh I only want to, to share my, my wallet, my, my, my, 16:26.479 --> 16:32.780 my market, share my clients if I'm sure that I will receive money back, 16:32.789 --> 16:37.109 if I will uh have access to that. And why that is important because if I want to, 16:37.119 --> 16:41.190 to auto my roots, if I want to ize the number of people that are in my city. 16:41.469 --> 16:47.070 Uh So data is essential So what we are trying to do again is we are trying to put together 16:47.179 --> 16:51.700 the different interests uh and based on, on data, uh we are trying, 16:51.710 --> 16:56.090 we are trying to provide information that can, can create more, 16:56.270 --> 17:00.109 more revenue or additional revenue streams for them in order to, 17:00.119 --> 17:04.760 with that, uh maybe it's a way to, to, to, to, to have some funds to, 17:04.770 --> 17:07.849 to invest. And this is my third, my third comment or the 17:07.859 --> 17:13.099 last comment, uh what the topic it's, we really need to find ways to, 17:13.109 --> 17:15.540 to create a business case and we, we need, if we need it, 17:15.550 --> 17:19.260 we really need to, to create ways to, to, to fund, to have funding to, 17:19.270 --> 17:23.958 to, to, to this type of model. So, uh and here we can talk about tax 17:23.968 --> 17:28.558 incentives, we can talk about that I can have in my city or, 17:28.639 --> 17:33.418 and maybe I will start applying some penalties to the ones that are not using mobility as a 17:33.428 --> 17:38.208 service or there are several ways. So I, I think I, 17:38.218 --> 17:42.499 I will need one more hour to talk about that, but uh to try to sum up, 17:42.509 --> 17:46.568 I think these three are at least three important topics that we are addressing and we 17:46.578 --> 17:47.879 are working on, on, on them. 17:48.630 --> 17:52.369 Thank you. We don't have one hour but uh you will be able 17:52.380 --> 17:55.869 to talk with our experts um after the panel discussion. 17:55.880 --> 17:59.839 So let me summarize, we have a very complex uh topic here, 17:59.849 --> 18:05.750 mobility as a service or a a profitable. So mobility as a service ecosystem. 18:05.760 --> 18:11.604 And we have four modules that we can um optimize individually. 18:11.614 --> 18:17.244 But to make the whole system work ghetto, there is a need of a governance structure. 18:17.574 --> 18:23.724 So what are the key elements for us? A successful and robust governance structure? 18:24.234 --> 18:27.655 Yeah, exactly. Um As we've heard, like trust is often the 18:27.665 --> 18:31.790 issue that we really have to face. And um we've seen a lot of pilots, 18:31.800 --> 18:37.140 especially in research of failing, going to the stage where they can operate independently 18:37.150 --> 18:40.959 profitable. So uh the governance mainly is divided into 18:40.969 --> 18:44.770 four sections. We got, firstly, the governing set, 18:44.780 --> 18:48.040 the set of partners. As you are the orchestrator of the ecosystem, 18:48.050 --> 18:53.060 you really want to decide which partners you want to include into the ecosystem in which you 18:53.069 --> 18:55.949 don't want inside the ecosystem for specific reasons. 18:56.239 --> 19:00.829 Secondly, what you want to do is like uh establish policies and clear rules that 19:00.839 --> 19:03.459 everybody should be aware of. Sure, of course, 19:03.469 --> 19:08.099 you need some mechanisms that provide that security that these rules are followed. 19:08.449 --> 19:15.219 And as well like um you want to make sure that every partner knows his responsibility that 19:15.229 --> 19:16.500 he or she is carrying. 19:17.130 --> 19:22.219 And as the third asset as we heard that before, you need a good relations, 19:22.229 --> 19:27.479 so you have to really invest and to trust to share the customer to share the revenues to be 19:27.489 --> 19:32.699 open and also with data to have a good, good collaborative atmosphere to work in. 19:33.209 --> 19:38.810 And uh lastly, the last uh asset you want to create in the governance sector is that you 19:38.819 --> 19:45.469 share knowledge on uh routines that you don't just uh have randomly structures that you 19:45.479 --> 19:47.849 really want to share the knowledge in a structured pattern. 19:48.209 --> 19:51.469 So to do this, it's, it's very hard to establish that. 19:51.479 --> 19:54.630 And that's where we, we've seen a lot of pilots failing. 19:54.959 --> 20:01.260 And therefore we derived a multi layered approach to set a governance that really 20:01.270 --> 20:06.739 fulfills these requirements that a profitable ecosystem should really fulfill. 20:08.040 --> 20:12.819 Thank you, Ko Harold. Any final comment or statement from your side? 20:13.160 --> 20:16.319 Well, I think uh could also like all the others colleague talk for hours. 20:16.329 --> 20:21.469 But I think to build it up, I think basically we should not underestimate the complexity of 20:21.479 --> 20:23.810 the topic. You know, I think we shouldn't be naive. 20:23.819 --> 20:26.839 You know, I think that's for sure. There are always reason why something is not 20:26.849 --> 20:30.800 moving ahead. But one thing I'm always thinking about 50 20:30.810 --> 20:35.719 years ago, so we were able to put a man on the moon and now we have all the technologies, 20:35.729 --> 20:41.079 all the experience, all those things, people experts, it shouldn't be that impossible to 20:41.089 --> 20:46.479 create this kind of mobility as a service in a way that society is looking for and that maybe 20:46.489 --> 20:51.319 the capital market is willing to invest. So I think we maybe jointly have to move 20:51.329 --> 20:56.150 forward and we put an idea on here idea that we are working day on day. 20:56.339 --> 21:02.170 And so I think I would say we have a €500 million market 21:02.510 --> 21:05.540 expected for mis for 2030. 21:05.800 --> 21:08.920 Now, we have to develop the the the supply for that, you know, 21:08.930 --> 21:13.609 there is, there is a huge demand and now we're looking for the supply and I'm pretty confident 21:13.619 --> 21:15.739 that we will see this. So, thank you very much. 21:16.130 --> 21:20.420 Thank you very much for being here today. Thank you for the available um insights. 21:20.430 --> 21:24.650 I would like to give you the opportunity to ask questions to our questions, 21:24.660 --> 21:26.000 to our panelists. 21:26.260 --> 21:28.420 Oh, there we have the first question. 21:33.359 --> 21:37.130 Hi, good afternoon. Uh I am a mobility as a service company. 21:37.140 --> 21:38.540 So I have a couple of questions. 21:38.819 --> 21:43.939 I have heard a lot about data and the need of forcing people to share data. 21:44.180 --> 21:47.199 How do you explain Google Maps? So Google Maps, 21:47.310 --> 21:51.739 they have not mandatorily request data to no one. 21:51.750 --> 21:56.819 So we share the the data because they give us some value and they give value for the 21:56.829 --> 22:02.089 providers and for the authorities and all feel very comfortable in sharing the data. 22:02.369 --> 22:06.869 The other thing that I would uh uh that that is regarding the data. 22:06.880 --> 22:08.829 The second thing is regarding the pilots. 22:09.079 --> 22:14.619 I think most of the problems that we face in Mity as a service is that everyone wants to do 22:14.630 --> 22:18.189 a pilot. So we do something that is very small in a 22:18.199 --> 22:22.890 small scale that it can't be used to, to to sync. 22:22.900 --> 22:27.109 Uh And of course, all the pilots fail. So there is no second chance for doing 22:27.119 --> 22:28.310 something sync there. 22:28.709 --> 22:35.569 And the third thing that is uh also quite important is what you think about the 22:35.579 --> 22:41.500 infrastructure because I see talking about data, but most of the operators don't have the right 22:41.510 --> 22:44.890 infrastructure even to have data. So what can they share? 22:44.900 --> 22:49.780 So is um I think that approach for mo as a service is more, 22:49.790 --> 22:56.609 how can stop complaining and and using our, our our abilities to be smart and to give value to 22:56.619 --> 22:59.050 people so they can adopt for better solutions. 23:00.020 --> 23:04.359 I maybe start with the second question and I give the microphone to other people more 23:04.369 --> 23:08.849 knowledgeable on that. I think um I was also have a different head on 23:08.859 --> 23:13.430 at Deloitte also for uh smart manufacturing activity iot activity. 23:13.780 --> 23:19.349 And there we had a similar situation 56 years ago, all the companies all over the globe were 23:19.359 --> 23:23.459 having those pilots in every of their plants. I have an IO device here, 23:23.469 --> 23:27.040 I make this element of a plant with a pilot and here and there. 23:27.050 --> 23:30.660 Of course, the plant is not as complicated as the city for sure. 23:30.670 --> 23:34.530 But the point was at one point in time, it was 34 years ago. 23:35.160 --> 23:41.229 Luckily before COVID, um many of the companies were saying I get rid of all those pilots. 23:41.239 --> 23:47.829 I want to have an integrated IOT structure that makes our company or our organization better. 23:48.119 --> 23:50.260 And I think this is something that we also have to do. 23:50.270 --> 23:55.319 You know, we have many pilots, but we have to think through what can we standardize? 23:55.329 --> 23:58.349 Why do we always need every city with its own app? 23:59.900 --> 24:03.520 Why can't we maybe start doing something more where we can get, 24:03.530 --> 24:07.910 get going on this? And I think that's something uh the analogy to 24:07.920 --> 24:11.880 the IUT and actually we actually all in the manufacturing area, 24:11.890 --> 24:15.569 this is now on the next level. And we have to also go to this next level, 24:15.579 --> 24:17.599 maybe to the other question, I give it to you. 24:18.160 --> 24:21.339 So just to just to compliment at least based on my experience in, 24:21.359 --> 24:26.339 in other other projects or in in previous projects, I think one of the problems was 24:26.349 --> 24:30.979 exactly this one because people start start trying to, 24:30.989 --> 24:36.489 to pilot a specific part of the ecosystem and not looking to the old ecosystem. 24:36.500 --> 24:41.689 This one second, I think nowadays we have more technology and we have already technology open 24:41.699 --> 24:45.150 and able to integrate with the best of Britain in terms of back end, 24:45.160 --> 24:47.670 in terms of apps, in terms of of that integration. 24:47.680 --> 24:52.750 So I think we are now in a stage where we already have experience and we are able to 24:52.760 --> 24:57.910 provide something that they don't need to be a huge investment to start, 24:57.920 --> 25:02.410 maybe they can start piloting. But having already the full picture, 25:02.420 --> 25:05.609 the full vision and I think this can make the difference, at least again, 25:05.660 --> 25:12.430 based on my previous experience, one last thing you talked about data sharing, 25:12.439 --> 25:19.150 why people, why people are sharing data on Google Maps and maybe not willing to be 25:19.160 --> 25:21.150 sharing data on a mass system. 25:22.229 --> 25:27.560 I think it's all about the benefit story. So Google Maps has established a really good 25:27.569 --> 25:31.119 customer journey, a really good benefits story within their ecosystem. 25:31.130 --> 25:36.660 So you're willing, you're kind of automatically sharing your data and we have to establish 25:36.670 --> 25:42.479 something very similar in a mass ecosystem. So people have to get benefits out of sharing 25:42.489 --> 25:47.849 the data. I just today talked about insurance pay as you 25:47.859 --> 25:52.750 drive pay, how you drive getting benefits out of that and getting the insights, 25:52.760 --> 25:59.619 you need to get the best mode of transportation to get to your next destination building 25:59.630 --> 26:02.140 that into the customer journey, into the experience. 26:02.150 --> 26:04.630 That's going to be key for my experience. 26:05.890 --> 26:09.770 Thank you. Any other questions from the audience or 26:09.780 --> 26:16.719 comments, Carlo from 26:16.790 --> 26:19.869 the Tech University in Aint Hover. I have a bit of experience with a lot of these 26:19.880 --> 26:22.369 programs. I I have two challenges that I always see is 26:22.380 --> 26:28.209 that uh on the market share for 98% of people's trips, they know where to go to. 26:28.219 --> 26:31.310 They know what the best modality is. Don't deliver their fate to a system to 26:31.319 --> 26:34.099 determine that this makes the market to my point of view, 26:34.109 --> 26:37.640 very, very tiny and the other thing is what, what, what you said, 26:37.949 --> 26:41.739 I said, you said people don't want to own cars, they want to share cars. 26:42.020 --> 26:46.510 We're talking about that now for 1015 years, I don't see that happening in the figures. 26:46.520 --> 26:50.250 It might be an underestimation of our hunter gatherer feeling how we, 26:50.400 --> 26:54.569 how we approach these means. So that's, isn't that a challenge that the 26:54.579 --> 26:57.530 market is not big enough for all these investments in the end? 26:57.540 --> 27:00.579 And that might not be a problem. So is the market, 27:00.589 --> 27:04.839 did you say 500 million or billion, million billion? 27:05.719 --> 27:07.119 OK. That, that's huge. 27:07.130 --> 27:12.900 Is this really happening for this 1 2% of trips that I that are still more than the 1 2% of 27:12.910 --> 27:14.130 trips. But maybe you go. 27:15.170 --> 27:21.989 So um m maybe um let's start about um that um hypothesis, the move from 27:22.000 --> 27:24.699 ownership to usage. We definitely, we definitely see that. 27:24.709 --> 27:29.229 So it's not only about sharing, it's about giving up the actual ownership of the asset 27:29.239 --> 27:34.119 because there there a lot of different, you don't see that I see you, 27:35.119 --> 27:39.849 but we see that especially in the automotive sector, people are more and more not willing to 27:39.859 --> 27:46.380 take the risk, for example, for residual values, they are more and more thinking about um being 27:46.390 --> 27:50.800 ecological sharing. Um But it's also about um 27:52.819 --> 27:56.410 really not finding parking spaces in cities and all that kind of stuff. 27:56.420 --> 28:00.319 So we definitely have a difference between urban and rural areas, 28:00.329 --> 28:04.069 I totally agree. But in urban areas, we definitely see that 28:04.079 --> 28:09.489 trend giving up ownership of automotive mobility just to compliment. 28:09.699 --> 28:15.150 So we can think about the owners. But we can also think about the way the people 28:15.160 --> 28:19.750 want to, to, to waste or to invest their money, our money and in a daily, 28:19.760 --> 28:24.520 daily life. So maybe I don't want to buy uh a monthly pass. 28:24.530 --> 28:27.430 Ma maybe I would like to pay what I'm using. 28:27.640 --> 28:31.979 Uh Maybe I would like to, to put, to have more discounts if my, 28:31.989 --> 28:37.670 myself and my family are using the buses or the train um several times in, 28:37.680 --> 28:41.729 in a day. So if I have these ecosystems already enabled, 28:41.959 --> 28:47.130 uh maybe I, maybe it's not, maybe uh what, what I have the capacity is to understand who is 28:47.140 --> 28:53.910 using what uh so based on that, I can create some offerings like consumption based dynamic 28:53.920 --> 28:57.839 pricing. So I think this is not only about the, 28:57.849 --> 29:01.660 the O A MS or the automotive sector to be part of the ecosystems. 29:01.920 --> 29:07.829 Uh We know and they are, we are talking with them so that they need to have an offer to be 29:07.839 --> 29:10.709 part of the ecosystem if the ecosystem is exists. 29:10.719 --> 29:16.050 But what we are facing now is that is that there are needs to have this type of mobility, 29:16.060 --> 29:21.199 more integrated mobility. It's uh it's something that that's we generate 29:21.209 --> 29:27.479 additional revenue, we'll generate additional efficiency, we believe uh we'll maybe do 29:27.609 --> 29:31.739 something that will help us to have less traffic in the cities. 29:31.750 --> 29:34.140 And there are a lot of topics uh related to that. 29:34.150 --> 29:39.719 So, uh we, we foresee a market for, for this as, as I already mentioned because there are 29:39.729 --> 29:46.099 several uh demands, not one or two drivers for that, 29:47.910 --> 29:51.050 maybe one point I think. Um of course, you are right. 29:51.060 --> 29:58.020 Uh there is in, in transportation or in driving, always this kind of discrepancy between 29:58.030 --> 30:00.589 attitude and behavior. We all know this, you know, 30:00.599 --> 30:05.489 I think we all know this whenever you ask people, they are all for green transportation, 30:05.500 --> 30:08.890 but if they drive on their own, they are, they are looking 0, 30:08.900 --> 30:12.400 10 minutes less. Ok. I drive my car and I think we should be honest 30:12.410 --> 30:14.959 about it. Even those people here will do this. 30:14.969 --> 30:21.707 So I think at the end of the day, what is, of course needed is a kind of really finding an 30:21.717 --> 30:24.916 offer that get the people catch that they use it. 30:24.927 --> 30:31.427 And I think it is, it will not be simply doing what we do right now and then maybe make a few 30:31.437 --> 30:38.317 more, make a few more trains rhythm, but also maybe to combine it with bridges 30:38.327 --> 30:42.677 where the mobility stops. For example, I'm coming out of the r rural area 30:42.967 --> 30:46.374 for us. It is quite easy to drive in the big cities 30:46.384 --> 30:52.114 within the area but do not try to move between the cities that's not working, 30:52.124 --> 30:54.303 you know. And so therefore, you always have to. 30:54.563 --> 30:58.423 So I think at the end of the day, you're right, we have to, 30:58.433 --> 31:04.154 there is a huge potential market, but we have to be in intelligence and we have to be 31:04.484 --> 31:10.144 thorough to find how to tackle those markets because the behavior of the people is pretty 31:10.154 --> 31:13.421 clear. And especially if you have a kid, if you uh you 31:13.431 --> 31:17.610 wanna come back from the work and you pass by, by your shop on all those things. 31:17.620 --> 31:20.651 So I think that the travel journey has to be analyzed. 31:20.661 --> 31:24.750 And I think therefore, I think it is really, that's why we have this market module. 31:24.760 --> 31:29.561 It is really important to understand how to generate the traffic so that people are really 31:29.571 --> 31:32.230 using that. And I think that's not a given. 31:32.240 --> 31:34.201 So don't get me wrong. You know, it's not what we're saying. 31:34.321 --> 31:37.490 It's easy to do it, it is some work to do. But I think, 31:37.500 --> 31:41.459 yeah, thank you. We are running out of time. 31:42.069 --> 31:47.709 So if you want, if you want to learn more about the blueprint of a successful mobility as a 31:47.719 --> 31:52.619 service platform, please scan the code go. Maybe you can uh move a little bit. 31:52.630 --> 31:56.880 Thank you so much and thank you for joining our panel discussion. 31:56.979 --> 32:03.785 Uh My colleague is, is um going to um do a tour with you if you 32:03.795 --> 32:08.875 want. Um She will be presenting six stand six booth 32:08.885 --> 32:10.714 that can be very interesting. For you. 32:10.724 --> 32:14.074 So if you want to join the tour, please follow my colleague. 32:14.084 --> 32:15.114 Thank you very much.